7.3 The President’s Anger When He Could Not March to the Capitol

7.3 The President’s Anger When He Could Not March to the Capitol

¶President Trump concluded his remarks at 1:10 p.m. Luna heard the President mention his intention to join the march to the Capitol “after he finished his remarks.”⁷⁷⁷⁷ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Deposition of Nicholas Luna, (Mar. 21, 2022), p. 117. Just before the President got into his vehicle, Meadows told him, “We’re going to work on it, sir.”⁷⁸⁷⁸ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Cassidy Hutchinson, (June 20, 2022), p. 8. President Trump was seated in his motorcade vehicle by 1:17 p.m.⁷⁹⁷⁹ Documents on file with the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol (National Archives Production), P-R000257 (January 6, 2021, Presidential Daily Diary).

¶The Committee received information informally from current and former members of the Secret Service and former White House staff relevant to what happened next—what a number of witnesses have described as an “angry,” “irate,” or “furious” interaction in the Presidential vehicle between the President and the Secret Service.⁸⁰⁸⁰ See, e.g., Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee “Press Secretary,” (October 31, 2022), pp. 49–51 (the word “furious” was “consistent with what was described to me that occurred—you know, agitated, furious, upset, angry, whatever adjective”). That initial information, received informally, shaped the Committee’s questioning of witnesses. The Committee’s principal concern was that the President actually intended to participate personally in the January 6th efforts at the Capitol, leading the effort to overturn the election either from inside the Chamber or from a stage outside the Capitol. The Committee regarded those facts as important because they are relevant to President Trump’s intent on January 6th. But a book published by Mark Meadows in November 2021 made the categorical claim that the President never intended to travel to the Capitol that day.⁸¹⁸¹ Mark Meadows, The Chief’s Chief, (St. Petersburg: All Seasons Press, 2021), at p. 250 (“When he got offstage, President Trump let me know that he had been speaking metaphorically about the walk to the Capitol. . . . It was clear the whole time that he didn’t actually intent to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue with the crowd.”). Because the Meadows book conflicted sharply with information that was being received by the Committee, the Committee became increasingly wary that witnesses might intentionally conceal what happened.

¶In our initial informal discussion with the lead of the President’s detail, Robert Engel confirmed that President Trump did wish to travel to the Capitol from the Ellipse, but stated that he did not recall many other details.⁸²⁸² Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Informal Interview of Robert Engel, (Mar. 4, 2022). But the Committee also received information from Kayleigh McEnany and Cassidy Hutchinson which also directly contradicted Mark Meadows’s book and provided considerably more detail. McEnany testified that President Trump did indeed wish to travel to the Capitol on January 6th, and continued to have that goal even after returning from the Ellipse to the White House.⁸³⁸³ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Deposition of Kayleigh McEnany, (Jan. 12, 2022), pp. 158–62. McEnany, who spoke with President Trump shortly after he returned to the White House, recalls him expressing a desire to go to the Capitol: “I recall him . . . saying that he wanted to physically walk and be a part of the march and then saying that he would ride the Beast if he needed to, ride in the Presidential limo.”⁸⁴⁸⁴ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Deposition of Kayleigh McEnany, (Jan. 12, 2022), p. 159. When asked, McEnany confirmed that “yes, he did seem sincere about wanting to do that.”⁸⁵⁸⁵ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Deposition of Kayleigh McEnany, (Jan. 12, 2022), p. 160. Hutchinson’s testimony was generally consistent with the information the Select Committee was receiving informally. Like McEnany, Hutchinson confirmed that the President did ask to be transported to Capitol Hill.⁸⁶⁸⁶ See, e.g., Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Cassidy Hutchinson, (June 20, 2022), pp. 5–8. Many other White House witnesses would ultimately confirm that President Trump wished to travel to the Capitol on January 6th, comprehensively rebutting the false statements in Meadows’s book.⁸⁷⁸⁷ See, e.g., Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Deposition of Max Miller, (Jan. 20, 2022), p. 90; Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Deposition of Judson P. Deere, (Mar. 3, 2022), p. 71; Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Deposition of Nicholas Luna, (Mar. 21, 2022) p. 118; Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of White House Security Official, (July 11, 2022) pp. 35–36.Show full note

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¶Part of Hutchinson’s account was a secondhand description of what occurred in the Presidential vehicle, which built upon and was consistent with information the Committee has received informally.

¶Hutchinson testified that, when she returned from the Ellipse, Ornato was standing outside his office door when he “waved me down,” Hutchinson said. The two of them walked into Ornato’s office, and he shut the door behind them.⁸⁸⁸⁸ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Cassidy Hutchinson, (June 20, 2022), p. 5. Engel was already there, sitting in a chair “looking down, kind of looking a little lost and kind of discombobulated.”⁸⁹⁸⁹ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Cassidy Hutchinson, (June 20, 2022), p. 5. According to Hutchinson, Ornato then recounted a struggle in the President’s car.⁹⁰⁹⁰ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Hearing on the January 6th Investigation, 117th Cong., 2d sess., (June 28, 2022), available at https://www.govinfo.gov/committee/house-january6th. At no point during Ornato’s telling—or at any point thereafter—did Engel indicate that what Ornato relayed was untrue.⁹¹⁹¹ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Cassidy Hutchinson, (June 20, 2022), pp. 6–7.

¶Cassidy Hutchinson describes a story relayed to her by Tony Ornato about President Trump’s desire to go to the Capitol after the Ellipse speech on January 6th during a January 6th Select Committee hearing. (Photo by Brandon Bell/Getty Images)

¶Another witness, a White House employee with national security responsibilities, provided the Committee with a similar description: Ornato related the “irate” interaction in the presidential vehicle to this individual in Ornato’s White House office with Engel present.⁹²⁹² Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of White House Employee with National Security Responsibilities, (July 19, 2022), pp. 69–71. And just as Hutchinson testified, this employee told the Select Committee that Engel listened to Ornato’s retelling of the episode and did not dispute it: “I don’t remember his specific body language, but . . . [h]e did not deny the fact that the President was irate.”⁹³⁹³ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of White House Employee with National Security Responsibilities, (July 19, 2022), p. 71. Engel testified that he does not recall either the conversation with Hutchinson or the similar conversation with the White House employee with national security responsibilities.⁹⁴⁹⁴ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), pp. 143–44, 147–48.

¶The Committee regarded both Hutchinson and the corroborating testimony by the White House employee with national security responsibilities national security official as earnest and has no reason to conclude that either had a reason to invent their accounts. A different Secret Service agent, who served on a protective detail at the White House and was present in the presidential motorcade at the Ellipse, provided this view:

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Committee Staff: Just a couple of additional questions. Ms. Hutchinson has suggested to the Committee that you sympathized with her after her testimony, and believed her account. Is that accurate?

Witness: I have no—yeah, that’s accurate. I have no reason—I mean, we—we became friends. We worked—I worked every day with her for 6 months. Yeah, she became a friend of mine. We had a good working relationship. I have no reason—she’s never done me wrong. She’s never lied that I know of. I don’t have any reason—I don’t—I don’t distrust Ms. Hutchinson.⁹⁵⁹⁵ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee, (Nov. 21, 2022), pp. 92–93.

¶Also, the White House employee with national security responsibilities indicated that knowledge of the angry altercation in the Presidential vehicle was known within the White House—and was “[water] cooler talk.”⁹⁶⁹⁶ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of White House Employee with National Security Responsibilities (July 19, 2022), p. 73 (“In the days following that, I do remember, you know, again, hearing again how angry the President was when, you know, they were in the limo.”) In addition, Hutchinson has provided testimony to the Committee about efforts by her prior counsel, who was apparently paid by a Trump-funded organization, to suggest that Hutchinson did not need to testify about the issue in the presidential vehicle, could suggest that she “did not recall” it, or should downplay it.⁹⁷⁹⁷ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Cassidy Hutchinson, (Sep. 14, 2022), pp. 34, 36, 37–38, 55.

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¶To further corroborate the accounts received of President Trump’s intent to travel to the Capitol, the Committee interviewed a member of the Metropolitan Police who was also present in the motorcade, Officer Mark Robinson. Officer Robinson confirmed that he was aware contemporaneously of the “heated discussion” that took place in the Presidential vehicle:

Committee Staff: And was there any description of what was occurring in the car?

Mr. Robinson: No. Only that—the only description I received was that the President was upset and that he was adamant about going to the Capitol, and there was a heated discussion about that.

Committee Staff: When you say “heated,” is that your word, or is that the word that was described by the TS agent?

Mr. Robinson: No. The word described by the TS agent meaning that the President was upset, and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the Capitol.

. . . .

Mr. Schiff: So about how many times would you say you’ve been part of that motorcade with the President?

Mr. Robinson: Probably over a hundred times.

Mr. Schiff: And, in that hundred times, have you ever witnessed another discussion of an argument or a heated discussion with the President where the President was contradicting where he was supposed to go or what the Secret Service believed was safe?

Mr. Robinson: No.⁹⁸⁹⁸ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Mark Robinson, (July 7, 2022), pp. 18, 23.

¶The Committee also interviewed the Secret Service agent who was in the same car as Officer Robinson. That person shared a similar account, and confirmed that he did not take issue with Officer Robinson’s testimony: “[The driver of the Presidential car] said something to the effect of, ‘The President is pretty adamant that he wants to go to the Capitol,’” the agent said, recalling what he had heard on the 6th.⁹⁹⁹⁹ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee, (Nov. 4, 2022), pp. 99–100.

¶In addition, the Committee interviewed the USSS Press Secretary, who communicated with both Engel and with the driver in the presidential vehicle after Hutchinson appeared publicly. That witness indicated that Engel’s account of the events confirmed that the President was indeed angry, or furious.¹⁰⁰¹⁰⁰ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee “Press Secretary,” (Oct. 31, 2022), pp. 46, 50. In fact, when asked about a reporter’s tweet indicating that sources within the Secret Service confirmed that “Trump was furious about not being [able] to go to [the] Capitol with his supporters,” the Press Secretary said he “certainly corroborated it” with the reporter because “that’s what I had been told, you know, that [the President] was upset, he was agitated, about not being able to go[.]”¹⁰¹¹⁰¹ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee “Press Secretary,” (Oct. 31, 2022), p. 50; see also Carol Leonnig (@CarolLeonnig), Twitter, June 28, 2022 7:46 p.m. ET, available at https://twitter.com/CarolLeonnig/status/1541931078184845312. The press secretary confirmed that he or she confirmed this information to the reporter because “that’s what I had been told.” “[Engel] did indicate—you know, kind of outlined . . . that the President did want to go to the Capitol, and Mr. Engel advised that we cannot go,” the press secretary testified. “And you know, [President Trump] was agitated, but Mr. Engel advised that—you know, it was kind of a non-issue. It was agitated verbally, and they proceeded to the White House.” Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee “Press Secretary,” (Oct. 31, 2022), pp. 46, 50.Show full note

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¶In addition to the testimony above, the Committee has reviewed hundreds of thousands of new Secret Service documents, including many demonstrating that the Secret Service had been informed of potential violence at the Capitol before the Ellipse rally on January 6th. (These documents were critical to our understanding of what the Secret Service and White House knew about the threat to the Capitol on January 6th.) The Committee has also more recently conducted additional interviews with Engel and Ornato, and has also interviewed the driver of the Presidential vehicle.

¶Both Engel and the driver¹⁰²¹⁰² The Select Committee has agreed not to name the Secret Service agent who was driving the vehicle to protect his privacy. We will refer to him in this report as “the driver.” testified that, within 30 seconds of getting into the vehicle, the President asked if he could travel to the Capitol.¹⁰³¹⁰³ See Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Secret Service Employee “Driver,” (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 77; Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), pp. 100–01. This again is directly inconsistent with the account of events in Meadows’s book. According to Engel, he told the President immediately that the move wasn’t happening.¹⁰⁴¹⁰⁴ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), pp. 100–01. The President was unhappy with Engel’s response and began “pushing pretty hard to go.”¹⁰⁵¹⁰⁵ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Secret Service Employee “Driver,” (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 77. The President repeatedly asked why he could not go to the Capitol.¹⁰⁶¹⁰⁶ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Secret Service Employee “Driver,” (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 77. Engel replied that the Secret Service “didn’t have any people at the Capitol” to provide the President with appropriate security.¹⁰⁷¹⁰⁷ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Secret Service Employee “Driver,” (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 78. The President responded angrily, telling Engel and the driver “I’m the President and I’ll decide where I get to go.”¹⁰⁸¹⁰⁸ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Secret Service Employee “Driver,” (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 79. He reassured Engel that “it would essentially be fine and that the people there [meaning the people who were marching from the Ellipse to the Capitol at President Trump’s instruction] were [Trump] supporters or something to that effect,”¹⁰⁹¹⁰⁹ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Secret Service Employee “Driver,” (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 78. This recollection of the President’s phrasing seems very similar to Hutchinson’s testimony about President Trump’s statement before he took the stage at the Ellipse: “I’m the President. Take the F’ing mags away. They’re not here to hurt me.” Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Cassidy Hutchinson, (June 20, 2022), pp. 11–12.Show full note According to the Secret Service agent driving the vehicle, the President was “animated and irritated” about not going to the Capitol.¹¹⁰¹¹⁰ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee, (Nov. 7, 2022), pp. 78, 92.

¶According to Mr. Engel, he ultimately told the President that they would “assess what our options were and wait until we can get a plan in place before we went down there.”¹¹¹¹¹¹ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of United States Secret Service Employee, (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 78. We note that the driver’s account acknowledged President Trump’s anger to a greater degree than either Engel’s initial account in Spring 2022, or his more recent account in November 2022. Engel did not characterize the exchange in the vehicle the way Hutchinson described the account she heard from Ornato, and indicated that he did not recall President Trump gesturing toward him.¹¹²¹¹² Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), p. 102. Mr. Engel also did not recall another occasion where testimony indicates that the incident in the presidential vehicle was mentioned. Mr. Engel’s counsel has asked the Committee not to make certain evidence relating to that occasion public. Engel did not recall being present when Ornato gave either Hutchinson or the White House employee with national security responsibilities an accounting of the events.¹¹³¹¹³ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), pp. 143–44, 147–48. The driver testified that he did not recall seeing what President Trump was doing and did not recall whether there was movement.¹¹⁴¹¹⁴ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Secret Service Employee “Driver,” (Nov. 7, 2022), p. 80.

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¶The Select Committee has great respect for the men and women of the Secret Service. That said, it is difficult to fully reconcile the accounts of several of the witnesses who provided information with what we heard from Engel and Ornato.¹¹⁵¹¹⁵ The Justice Department will have all of the relevant information and can make decisions about whether and how to proceed based upon this evidence. But the principal factual point here is clear and undisputed: President Trump specifically and repeatedly requested to be taken to the Capitol. He was insistent and angry, and continued to push to travel to the Capitol even after returning to the White House.

¶The motorcade didn’t disband upon arriving to the White House, as they usually do. Instead, they were instructed to stand by in case the President’s move to the Capitol did indeed happen.¹¹⁶¹¹⁶ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), p. 121. The Select Committee received a document from the Secret Service that reflects that at 1:25 p.m., “PPD IS ADVISING THAT [THE PRESIDENT] IS PLANNING ON HOLDING AT THE WHITE HOUSE FOR THE NEXT APPROXIMATE TWO HOURS, THEN MOVING TO THE CAPITOL.”¹¹⁷¹¹⁷ Documents on file with the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol (Secret Service Production), CTRL0000882478 at p. 4 (January 6, 2021, PID update at 1:25 p.m.). “They had not made a decision whether or not we were going to transport the President to the Capitol,” Robinson was told.¹¹⁸¹¹⁸ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Transcribed Interview of Mark Robinson, (July 7, 2022), pp. 18–19.

¶Engel testified that he went to Ornato’s office when he returned to the West Wing in order to discuss a possible move to the Capitol by President Trump.¹¹⁹¹¹⁹ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), p. 121. Given the deteriorating security conditions at the Capitol, it was quickly determined that they could not safely transport the President there.¹²⁰¹²⁰ Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, Continued Interview of Robert Engel, (Nov. 17, 2022), p. 125. The motorcade waited on West Executive Drive approximately 40 minutes before finally receiving word from the Secret Service that the move had been officially nixed. Internal Secret Service communications bear this out: Not until 1:55 p.m. did Engel notify other agents via email that “[w]e are not doing an OTR to [the Capitol].”¹²¹¹²¹ Documents on file with the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol (Secret Service Production), CTRL0000208061 (January 6 2021, email from Robert Engel at 1:55 p.m.).